Post by urbannomad on May 11, 2012 11:56:51 GMT -8
I hope you don’t mind me posting here. I am not a CI survivor, although I’m worried my daughter may currently be a victim. I’d like to share some of my observations here to establish if I should be concerned and consider what I might be able to do to address the situation.
I am a 44 year old single father of two daughters: K (aged 17) and A (aged 14). I have never been married, and my daughters are from different mothers, so both are effectively only children as they have never spent more than three weeks together at any one stretch. Notwithstanding these circumstances, I am a very hands on dad engaged in every aspect of my girls’ lives, to the extent that circumstances permit. K has been living with me since she was 13, so I know teenage girls. Her mother and I get on amazingly.
It’s the relationship between A and her mother that concerns me. The three of us lived together from 2001 until 2005 (A’s ages 3-7). I had feelings for A’s mother at the time, but I largely got into that relationship for paternal reasons … and immediately regretted it. A’s mother was the most impossible person to get along with, or maybe it was me … who knows? The day after I ended the relationship, I got a phone call from A’s mother in tears confessing she was a cocaine addict and needed help. To be fair, we both indulged a little recreationally, but she laid out some facts about her private consumption that were quite shocking. She went to a private rehab facility for an assessment, and what they reported back seriously rocked my world. Anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, anger issues, post-traumatic stress disorder, eating disorder, drug addiction … and those are the ones I can remember.
I looked after A while her mother attended rehab, which I paid for. I seriously considered what was best for A, including consultations with A’s grandparents on both sides. I concluded that A must go back to her mother, but that I’d keep a very close eye on it, and further decisions could be made down the line as necessary. I failed to consider, at that time, my inability to enforce a decision as a non-custodial parent.
The first thing I noticed, post-rehab, was how A seemed to become the source of emotional fulfillment for her mother. It’s difficult to justify this assertion with evidence as it’s really an instinct. Suffice to say, that over the last seven years, whenever I present an opportunity which involves A going away for any period of time, I see subtle evidence of panic (and sometimes rage) in her mother’s reaction. Also when I return A after time spent with me, there is this overwhelming sense of relief and gushing love flowing from A’s mother. When A comes to me, she often announces that she must phone her mother every evening. I would never disallow a phone call, but neither do I remind A to make it. After a couple of days, A and K are having so much fun that the daily call is often overlooked, but her mother rarely forgets, and seems depressed when I answer the call and describe how much fun A is having.
After our relationship ended, A’s mother needed to work again. She is a fully qualified attorney with some years of experience arguing matters before judges in high courts. She decided to become a part-time receptionist at a gym owned by a mutual friend. Her reasoning was that she could better attend to A’s needs with the flexible hours available working for a friend. My generous maintenance obligations cover the salary differential, but sacrificing so much of her potential seemed irrational; the world is full of professional single parents.
Post-rehab, she appears to have addressed the drug addiction. She doesn’t drink, and there are no indications of hedonistic lifestyle. The other disorders are more of a concern to me. If I could live alongside them unaware for 4 years, how could I monitor them from outside? What damage could A potentially suffer in such a close-knit environment permeated with say, anger or anxiety? We went to a restaurant one evening, and I brought these concerns to her attention, suggesting the possibility of boarding school when A became a teenager. Her reaction was so explosive and sustained that she emptied the restaurant. This was a suggestion for A five years into the future.
Every year there are long summer holidays. I arrange my schedule to spend a month with A, but the balance of the time is always a problem. I want her to attend a summer camp for two weeks, her mother keeps her in the apartment with a nanny. It’s OK for K to join A and her mother for a week’s vacation, but A can’t join K and her mother. Instead of summer camp, A was taken to an inferior day camp requiring her mother to spend four hours driving daily. When A finally did get the green light for summer camp some years later, her mother drove to the camp numerous times without regard for scheduled visiting times.
A has everything she needs and more. She’s spoilt. Her wardrobe is overflowing with clothes and shoes she never wears. She gets a gift or a treat from her mother seemingly every day. I’m trying to teach A the value of money, but her mother convinces her I’m just stingy. She has no boundaries, and discipline enforcement is a function of her mother’s moods rather than A’s actions. When I discipline bad behavior A reacts like a deer in headlights, followed by an email from her mother stating that A responds better to love and affection.
Outside of work hours, her mother is basically dedicated to fetching and carrying A among school, extra-mural activities and social engagements. I am not aware of the nature of A’s mother’s social life, but if it was thriving, I’m sure details would have filtered through to me through A or mutual friends. She has been in a relationship for a couple of years, but it seems to have been on the rocks since inception.
Recently A has been displaying some dysfunctional behavior, including rudeness and disrespect towards her mother, who has finally agreed that boarding school might be a good idea. K is currently enrolled at a prestigious boarding school that was attended by six members of the British Royal family, and I procured admission for A as well. Her mother won’t allow it. A loved the school when we visited it, but after 2 days with her mother she changed her mind. A must attend a school that is closer with flexible weekend leave-out arrangements.
For many years I feel that I have been waging undeclared war for A’s interests. This has taken place quietly between A’s mother and me, but recently A’s mother seems to have brought A onto the battlefield against me. A now considers me to be a bully, and is actively taking sides with her mother on various issues.
This latest development is what has got me searching the internet for answers. I came across a book about emotional incest by Patricia Love, and found a checklist of 35 questions. The list is intended for adults to assess whether they experienced emotional incest as a child, and answering yes to ten or more is a red flag. I could only answer about half the questions, as I don’t witness their day to day lives. Nonetheless I was able to answer yes to nine. Then I found this and other forums where I read about the long term consequences that A might face. I had always suspected these problems might have long term consequences, but now I’ve found real evidence.
I find myself in a difficult situation. A’s mother presents a very respectable face to the outside world. She takes pride in how loving, caring and attentive she is to A’s needs, and it sure looks that way to the casual observer. A is riding a gravy train of constant gifts and attention. How would she ever imagine that is a bad thing? If I start throwing around a loaded word like ‘incest’ I might reasonably be labeled irrational and obsessed. On the other hand I can’t just sit quietly on the sidelines if my daughter is headed towards a life of anxiety, self-image and relationship problems.
Can anyone here help? Is my daughter possibly a victim of covert incest? What steps can I take to confirm if there is really a problem here? What steps should I then take if there is?
I am a 44 year old single father of two daughters: K (aged 17) and A (aged 14). I have never been married, and my daughters are from different mothers, so both are effectively only children as they have never spent more than three weeks together at any one stretch. Notwithstanding these circumstances, I am a very hands on dad engaged in every aspect of my girls’ lives, to the extent that circumstances permit. K has been living with me since she was 13, so I know teenage girls. Her mother and I get on amazingly.
It’s the relationship between A and her mother that concerns me. The three of us lived together from 2001 until 2005 (A’s ages 3-7). I had feelings for A’s mother at the time, but I largely got into that relationship for paternal reasons … and immediately regretted it. A’s mother was the most impossible person to get along with, or maybe it was me … who knows? The day after I ended the relationship, I got a phone call from A’s mother in tears confessing she was a cocaine addict and needed help. To be fair, we both indulged a little recreationally, but she laid out some facts about her private consumption that were quite shocking. She went to a private rehab facility for an assessment, and what they reported back seriously rocked my world. Anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, anger issues, post-traumatic stress disorder, eating disorder, drug addiction … and those are the ones I can remember.
I looked after A while her mother attended rehab, which I paid for. I seriously considered what was best for A, including consultations with A’s grandparents on both sides. I concluded that A must go back to her mother, but that I’d keep a very close eye on it, and further decisions could be made down the line as necessary. I failed to consider, at that time, my inability to enforce a decision as a non-custodial parent.
The first thing I noticed, post-rehab, was how A seemed to become the source of emotional fulfillment for her mother. It’s difficult to justify this assertion with evidence as it’s really an instinct. Suffice to say, that over the last seven years, whenever I present an opportunity which involves A going away for any period of time, I see subtle evidence of panic (and sometimes rage) in her mother’s reaction. Also when I return A after time spent with me, there is this overwhelming sense of relief and gushing love flowing from A’s mother. When A comes to me, she often announces that she must phone her mother every evening. I would never disallow a phone call, but neither do I remind A to make it. After a couple of days, A and K are having so much fun that the daily call is often overlooked, but her mother rarely forgets, and seems depressed when I answer the call and describe how much fun A is having.
After our relationship ended, A’s mother needed to work again. She is a fully qualified attorney with some years of experience arguing matters before judges in high courts. She decided to become a part-time receptionist at a gym owned by a mutual friend. Her reasoning was that she could better attend to A’s needs with the flexible hours available working for a friend. My generous maintenance obligations cover the salary differential, but sacrificing so much of her potential seemed irrational; the world is full of professional single parents.
Post-rehab, she appears to have addressed the drug addiction. She doesn’t drink, and there are no indications of hedonistic lifestyle. The other disorders are more of a concern to me. If I could live alongside them unaware for 4 years, how could I monitor them from outside? What damage could A potentially suffer in such a close-knit environment permeated with say, anger or anxiety? We went to a restaurant one evening, and I brought these concerns to her attention, suggesting the possibility of boarding school when A became a teenager. Her reaction was so explosive and sustained that she emptied the restaurant. This was a suggestion for A five years into the future.
Every year there are long summer holidays. I arrange my schedule to spend a month with A, but the balance of the time is always a problem. I want her to attend a summer camp for two weeks, her mother keeps her in the apartment with a nanny. It’s OK for K to join A and her mother for a week’s vacation, but A can’t join K and her mother. Instead of summer camp, A was taken to an inferior day camp requiring her mother to spend four hours driving daily. When A finally did get the green light for summer camp some years later, her mother drove to the camp numerous times without regard for scheduled visiting times.
A has everything she needs and more. She’s spoilt. Her wardrobe is overflowing with clothes and shoes she never wears. She gets a gift or a treat from her mother seemingly every day. I’m trying to teach A the value of money, but her mother convinces her I’m just stingy. She has no boundaries, and discipline enforcement is a function of her mother’s moods rather than A’s actions. When I discipline bad behavior A reacts like a deer in headlights, followed by an email from her mother stating that A responds better to love and affection.
Outside of work hours, her mother is basically dedicated to fetching and carrying A among school, extra-mural activities and social engagements. I am not aware of the nature of A’s mother’s social life, but if it was thriving, I’m sure details would have filtered through to me through A or mutual friends. She has been in a relationship for a couple of years, but it seems to have been on the rocks since inception.
Recently A has been displaying some dysfunctional behavior, including rudeness and disrespect towards her mother, who has finally agreed that boarding school might be a good idea. K is currently enrolled at a prestigious boarding school that was attended by six members of the British Royal family, and I procured admission for A as well. Her mother won’t allow it. A loved the school when we visited it, but after 2 days with her mother she changed her mind. A must attend a school that is closer with flexible weekend leave-out arrangements.
For many years I feel that I have been waging undeclared war for A’s interests. This has taken place quietly between A’s mother and me, but recently A’s mother seems to have brought A onto the battlefield against me. A now considers me to be a bully, and is actively taking sides with her mother on various issues.
This latest development is what has got me searching the internet for answers. I came across a book about emotional incest by Patricia Love, and found a checklist of 35 questions. The list is intended for adults to assess whether they experienced emotional incest as a child, and answering yes to ten or more is a red flag. I could only answer about half the questions, as I don’t witness their day to day lives. Nonetheless I was able to answer yes to nine. Then I found this and other forums where I read about the long term consequences that A might face. I had always suspected these problems might have long term consequences, but now I’ve found real evidence.
I find myself in a difficult situation. A’s mother presents a very respectable face to the outside world. She takes pride in how loving, caring and attentive she is to A’s needs, and it sure looks that way to the casual observer. A is riding a gravy train of constant gifts and attention. How would she ever imagine that is a bad thing? If I start throwing around a loaded word like ‘incest’ I might reasonably be labeled irrational and obsessed. On the other hand I can’t just sit quietly on the sidelines if my daughter is headed towards a life of anxiety, self-image and relationship problems.
Can anyone here help? Is my daughter possibly a victim of covert incest? What steps can I take to confirm if there is really a problem here? What steps should I then take if there is?