Hello (trigger warning)

[naomi]

I am 26 years old. As a teenager I began feeling something was really not right about my relationship with my dad, but I never heard of "covert incest" until very recently. What I would have told you was that I felt I became a sort of replacement or stand-in for my mom, and came to feel that my dad's well-being depended on me. He often told me I was the only person who understood him, the person who knew him best, and though he prided himself on being positive (as opposed to my mom who was depressed a lot but open about it) would get in these sad, despondent moods that I felt I got sucked into as kind of a trap. He would say things like, no one cares or understands him, and he would even accuse me by saying "You don't love me." (It really disturbs me that he said stuff like this to his twelve year old child. Even if it's not sexual, why? I felt more like his girlfriend than his daughter, but, even for a girlfriend that's inappropriate or concerning behavior.)

So when he got in these moods and I got sucked into the "trap" I would try to tell him I did love him and care, want to help, etc. but when he was really upset it would just spiral downwards with him not believing me and he would begin yelling and whining and throwing what I can think of no other way to describe other than sort of self-pity tantrums. He would yell, curse and insult me, putting me down. I would cry and cry. It became a cycle where later he would comfort me so affectionately and promise never to hurt me again, then occasionally he would refuse to apologize claiming he "apologized too much." Now I know I wasn't a perfect kid and he did do a lot of things for me to make me feel special, but one time he called me a "spoiled brat" because he got angry for no reason at all that I could discern (though I know there must have been one) and threw some glass bottles across the room and scared me. I was a "spoiled brat" because I firmly suggested he should apologize and didn't back down from that position. I think I was about 14 years old.

Nothing really overtly sexual just innuendos, bringing up sex by asking things like "Should you be watching this?" while sitting next to me during explicit sex scenes in a movie, but he used to do this thing where he offered to wake me up every morning. I used to let him, but one time he started touching my leg and then even my upper thigh and sort of caressing me... And he just looked at me with this big, awkward smile and stared at me while doing it. I was afraid to ask him to stop but he could probably tell I was uncomfortable as he didn't do anything more... But I also refused to let him wake me up after that. He kept asking to but I said no. I have this fear he did things to me while I slept, some nightmares about it, but doubtful it actually happened. I do remember him saying strange things out of nowhere while alone with me, like one time he said "If there's a Hell, I'm going there." I remember thinking, "Why?" All this when I was the same age, 12 or 14. I was also homeschooled after fifth grade because I asked him to because of problems with bullying but I think it just made my problems with him worse.

He only hit me a couple times but it was out of anger. I was never spanked as routine. I feel like his anger was this huge storm for me to deal with, and, I would actually rather have been spanked as discipline than deal with his screaming and insults at me as not discipline but rage.

Part of me is scared to assign labels and accuse him of anything, he's actually gone now anyway (dead). I mean, he and I used to be really close and like best friends. When I was a small child I enjoyed it. As a teenager I grew uncomfortable with it, but that doesn't mean I think he was a completely bad person and I still admire a lot of things about him. But my mom was ill a lot and I feel that combined with their already troubled marriage caused him to reach out to me in an inappropriate way.

[James C T]

Feb 11, 2015 18:12:40 GMT -8 naomi said:

Part of me is scared to assign labels and accuse him of anything, he's actually gone now anyway (dead). I mean, he and I used to be really close and like best friends. When I was a small child I enjoyed it. As a teenager I grew uncomfortable with it, but that doesn't mean I think he was a completely bad person and I still admire a lot of things about him. But my mom was ill a lot and I feel that combined with their already troubled marriage caused him to reach out to me in an inappropriate way.

I can relate. My mother was a good person with a lot to admire as well. And we were close. But as much as I still love her and think she was a good person, she contributed to my distorted understanding of love and relationships and my reactive nature to violations of boundaries.  There is no denying or avoiding that fact.  You can accept what happened to you without making anyone a bad guy or good guy.  We accept horrible things as being accidents and no one's fault and if it helps you to see this in this way, then please do.

I was put in the emotional place of my unavailable alcoholic father and it was not right.  I understand the reasons.  I wonder sometimes if it might have been better for them (if not us children) if they had gone their separate ways.   But in the end, she did what she did and I have to unlearn a whole bunch of bad habits and patterns that arose from that.  Welcome.

[naomi]

Feb 12, 2015 7:04:09 GMT -8 James C T said:

Feb 11, 2015 18:12:40 GMT -8 naomi said:

Part of me is scared to assign labels and accuse him of anything, he's actually gone now anyway (dead). I mean, he and I used to be really close and like best friends. When I was a small child I enjoyed it. As a teenager I grew uncomfortable with it, but that doesn't mean I think he was a completely bad person and I still admire a lot of things about him. But my mom was ill a lot and I feel that combined with their already troubled marriage caused him to reach out to me in an inappropriate way.

I can relate. My mother was a good person with a lot to admire as well. And we were close. But as much as I still love her and think she was a good person, she contributed to my distorted understanding of love and relationships and my reactive nature to violations of boundaries.  There is no denying or avoiding that fact.  You can accept what happened to you without making anyone a bad guy or good guy.  We accept horrible things as being accidents and no one's fault and if it helps you to see this in this way, then please do.

I was put in the emotional place of my unavailable alcoholic father and it was not right.  I understand the reasons.  I wonder sometimes if it might have been better for them (if not us children) if they had gone their separate ways.   But in the end, she did what she did and I have to unlearn a whole bunch of bad habits and patterns that arose from that.  Welcome.

Thanks; I like the idea of accepting what happened without notion of blame. I believe there were things that happened to my dad which made him the way he was, and I feel bad for that, wishing on some level I could help him or fix what went wrong during his childhood. That was part of why I tried so hard for so long to be his best friend.

Yes, your situation sounds somewhat like mine. A lot of the stories on here remind me of what I went through. It's funny because I just never knew how to tell people in a way they would understand. When I was maybe 15 or 16 and decided to emotionally wall myself off from my dad, he talked to everyone in the family or friends, even my friends and co-workers (later when I turned 18 and was working), about it. He was worried I was doing drugs, even though I never got out of the house because he kept me so sheltered. I was home-schooled. I mean, if I was doing drugs, where was I getting them from? People I couldn't even know? He was determined something had to be controlling my behavior, something or someone, and even said so to me. He couldn't believe I just decided, on my own, to distance myself from him, because I was uncomfortable with the way he treated me, even though I told him so. And I feel like some of my friends and boyfriends "took his side." Though I can't entirely blame them, not knowing what happened to me.

Going separate ways -- I actually wonder the same thing about my parents. My mom was so depressed and gave up on her life. I really wish I had spent more time developing a relationship with her -- though knowing her, it likely would've been troubled so maybe that's a blessing, who knows. But I wish so much she had had the self-esteem to try having a life outside of my dad. She married him young and depended on him her entire life because he didn't want her to work. I often think both my parents would've been happier on their own, and perhaps my dad wouldn't have felt that need to fill an emotional void with me because he'd have been trying to fill it with something (or someone) else.

[tc]

Hi all...I wanted to introduce myself as well. I can certainly relate to what has been said. I'm the youngest of two males. My brother is six years older than I. My incestuous relationship was with my mother. Both of my parents have passed (dad in 2001) and mother in 2013. My father suffered from untreated depression (he refused help of any kind until shortly before his death at 76) and was emotionally unavailable to say the least. I remember him as being very quiet, morose and irritable most of the time. He was unhappily employed all of his adult life and socially isolated and avoidant. However, he came alive on stage...like a Jekyll/Hyde...dad was a song and dance man that entertained others with skill and ease. People loved him. I've inherited many of his traits for better or for worse. He was a tall man...6'4" with large hands and could be quite intimidating and downright frightening when he became angry--which he did quite often (the only time he really came alive at home).  My mother used to verbalize that she had three boys (sons)...my father being one of them. My father was jealous of my relationship to my mother and often made this known when push came to shove by stating that she always chose me over him. My parents were obsessed with cleanliness--germ phobic. They were 'old school' in that there wasn't 'active parenting' on their part. I remember my mother's response to my inquiries later in life: "I don't know, you boys just grew." was her response. Avoidance of any real feelings or communication was the norm. Despite their germ phobia, for some reason my parents were quite liberal with their nakedness. Seeing my mother or father disrobed to some extent was a daily occurrence. I saw my mother naked until I was 21 years old. She left her bathroom door open while she was getting ready for work in the morning, using the toilet or getting out of the shower. I regularly saw her breasts and pubic hair. I remember seeing her leg while she sat on the toilet and hearing her douche. Nothing was ever said. No real attempt was made to 'cover up'. Mom's nakedness came to an end when at the prompting of a psychiatrist, I went home and as he told me to do told her to put some clothes on. In addition to the nakedness (and I don't know how this came about) my mother wiped me. I don't know how long this went on for...but it went on long enough that I made up a little song I sang to call her to me. I was 8 maybe 9 at the time. She would have me bend over the side of the tub and then she would wipe me until I was 'clean'. As I write this, I feel profound sense of shame and embarrassment. I'm 51 years old now. As I indicated, my mother died 2 years ago at 84 from Alzheimers. Up until the time when her illness debilitated her mind, I always kept my guard up around her. Her attempts to hug or kiss me felt 'icky'. She was a very needy demanding woman. It was never enough. At the very end of her life, I felt safe enough to come out and extend myself in compassion to her...in an effort to comfort her as an old woman who was dying. I guess that was my attempt to make some peace with her. Needless to say, her legacy lives on. There is more I would like to share, but I realize I've already gone on for quite some time. Thank you for reading.